The Netzari Faith

Netzarim, Original followers of Yeshua & His 12

Netzari Israelite VS Netzari Judaism - Same yet Different.

Hello, I'm new to this forum so I say hello to everyone and hope to make friends and have some nice conversations if possible.  Below I'll write about some of my views.

I just wish to say right off the bat, I haven't come here to cause strife and division but rather to learn and share what I've learnt and experienced.  I believe in layered interpretations so sometimes when two people are arguing both are actually right but not in opposition.  Please don't let the title of this initial blog post put you off, I just wish to share my findings and talk about it from different angles.  What I'm about to write I haven't seen written anywhere so I may be the first, but I highly doubt it.  This is just my views so please feel free to disagree if you wish.

 

Ok.  I don't think the titles we choose to give ourselves are no where near as important as how we live and I don't see them as having any 'magic' ability to make us righteous either!  At the end of the day it's who we are in YHWH's eyes that matters.  That said, I do believe titles make a difference for initial impression, one says "I'm a Christian,"  another says, "I'm a Jew," another says, "I'm a Hebrew Israelite," and what happens?  You immediately whether consciously or unconsciously have an impression in your mind about what that person believes and does.  We judge prematurely and sometimes it just happens involuntary.  For this reason I do see it as important to establish the title that best describes you.  I believe YHWH has His people all over the place, all over the world in a variety of religions and denominations that are based on the Scriptures...maybe some exceptions for far away 'primative' tribes also but I don't know everything about salvation so I'm not going into it here. 

When I joined we have the option of choosing 'Netzari' which I have done, but mostly when that terms is used 'Netzari Jew / Yahudi' comes to mind, and as I consider myself a 'Netzari Israelite' I wish to express what I see as the differences.  As I mentioned above I do see them both as compatible, I'm not trying to split anyone just merely to share some insights whether true or false.  No one agrees 100% anyway right?  This is partly a declaration of faith in areas I suppose.

 

The main differences as I see it are thus:

 

PERCIEVED DIFFERENCE 1:

Netzari Yahudim at large are mostly 'One House', but not always.  Many teach that there is just one and not two houses as we are supposed to be ONE.  

Netzari Israelites are mostly Two House.  I personally subscribe to a form of Two House but not all understandings of it.  I guess I might be an Ephramite but I can't know for a fact if I have Hebrew blood or what tribe I'm grafted into.  Netzari Israelites usually have the understanding that there are 12 tribes and not only Yahudah and so a new believer that receives the Ruakh HaQodesh and is regenerated becomes an Israelite and not necessarily a Yahudi.  You may be an Israelite (any of the 12 tribes)  and have a blood linkage or not, but as we are to be 'grafted in' it doesn't matter what our blood is/was.  I believe we are to be ONE ultimately, yet scripture seems clear to me that the Northern 10 tribes did separate themselves and have been coming back in trickles for around 2000 years.

PERCIEVED DIFFERENCE 2:

Netzari Yahudim at large adhere to much Talmud and name replacing, whereas Netzari Israelites seem more zelous of actually saying and pronouncing YHWH in one form or another and don’t adhere to Talmud and Oral Torah / Tradition.

To me, refusing to say YHWH and replacing it with HaShem or whatever is breaking command 3, removing the HEH from YHWH and Elohim and adding a QUF is also adding and replacing and we are told in Written Torah not to do this.  Again, I’m not condemning anyone, just sharing my views and findings as I know many of you do use say HaShem instead.

Many Netzari Yahudim also see commandment 3 about “Not taking the Name to Vain/ruin/destruction/L’Shaw” as meaning; “Using it to the point of commonality” thus blaspheming.

Netzari Israelites mostly read that command and understand it in a complete opposite 180 and say that “If we never use the name it comes to ruin and destruction, look at how it keeps getting changed and replaced.”  I agree more with the latter and it seems Yahushua / Y’shua and the Aposltes also declared the name of YHWH as written thus rubbing the Yahudi leaders up the wrong way, I guess we are in the same dilemma thus disrupting unity sometimes.

With Oral Torah and Tradition most Netzari Yahudim share the view of the Orthadox Yahudim and see it as binding on believers and follow many of the traditions, whereas most Netzari Israelites have a more Karaite view on things and feel free to establish their own way of doing things whether personally or in a group, feeling that the Oral ways are for the most part in opposition to Written Torah.  There’s a lot of wiggle room with peoples view on Oral Torah and so on a personal level I don’t adhere to it nor feel obligated as it seems Yahushua / Y’shua slated the Yahudim for many of its precepts and even performed miracles in a way that directly confronted a particular tradition.  He did however keep some traditions as long as they were not against Written Torah, and so that shows me He wasn’t against all of it.

I look at Talmudic studies sometimes as there is much wisdom contained, but there is also much dubious stuff that I can’t accept, many Netari Israelites have a similar view and see Oral Torah and Talmud as no different from Christian commentary…..but Jewish instead.

PERCIEVED DIFFERENCE 3:

Head coverings, Star of David, Tsitsiot, Tallit; I guess it comes into number 2, but it’s the same thing, many Netzari Yahudim do it and many Netzari Israelites don’t, instead seeing the Kippah as Oral Tradition and sometimes some even insist it’s pagan in origin.  The same issue goes for the Star of David, most Netzari Yahudim agree with it and most Netzari Israelites don’t.  Personally I can’t get established on it whether it’s pagan or not so I don’t know.  With Tzitsiot both groups agree we should have them but Netzari Yahudim for the most part do it in the Oral Traditional way and Netzari Israelites do it another way, some even doing it in a completely different way as shown by some ancient wall carvings where the fringes went around the whole garment and not just the corners.  This looks completely different and the interpretation of the ‘4 corners’ is alike to the ‘4 corners of the earth,’ in other areas all around.  This brings me to the word KaNaPH.  Many Netzari Yahudim and Orthadox Yahudim insist the tsitsiot MUST be on a CORNER because KaNaPH means corner, yet if you look at all Dictionaries, Concordances and Lexicons they pretty much all agree that KaNaPH means: Corner, Edge, Extremity, Wing, Border, Hem etc ……………….. so how can it only mean corner? If it doesn’t simply mean corner then that gives more freedom of expression and style.  You then have the techelet argument, only genuine techelet or any generic blue colour?  On top of that you get the argument is techelet  a sort of Torquise, Blue Or Purple?  And the debate goes on, but again many Netzari Israelites have some form of blue rather than non at all.  Tallit or no tallit?  Well, same thing really, scripture doesn’t command a Tallit but it does command tsitsiot.  I see the tallit as perfectly in line with Written Torah but not necessarily the only way to fulfil the command as is shown by the writing above concerning KaNaPH.

PERCIEVED DIFFERENCE 4:

Hebrew Language:  Many Netzari Yahudim who learn and speak Hebrew insist letter meanings can only what the sages and rabbis have come up with, the more modern so called ‘Mystical’ meanings and that any interpretation outside this box is by default wrong, everything else being complete trash.  Contrastly many Netzari Israelites tend to look into the Pictographic and Paleo Hebrew also and go with either.

On a personal note I look into all the major scripts because I believe there is much truth in each, it seems clear that with each script evolution meanings are hidden and new ones are revealed and I have several reasons to believe YHWH is actually doing this, rather than it simply being scribal idleness and captivity issues.  My YouTube video (10th vid, Tsaddi) will show this, or at least explain my reasons.

You then have all the dialect arguments aswell.

PERCIEVED DIFFERENCE 5:

Kosher / Kashar:   I think you know where I’m going with this by now!

Most Netzari Yahudim follow the directions of Oral Torah and Rabbis and most Netzari Israelites just go with the words of Written Torah and are not as extreme, feeling free to have a slice of cheese with a beef burger etc. 

Personally, I don’t eat ‘official’ kosher because it doesn’t exist where I live and if I had no choice I’d have to eat leaves and nothing else,  I’m not doing that.  I do however try to cut visible fat off meat and squeeze drain it if there seems to be any blood in.   Going to a restaurant is always a risk but seeing as I can’t see the griddle and kitchen I don’t worry about it too much, if I’m at a burger bar or whatever and I see sausages being flung about I won’t touch it  because I know for a sure fact, not a maybe that it’s all being swamped together.  These ways I know probably are unacceptable to a Yahudi or Netzari Yahudi, but then that’s another example of a difference.

OTHER POINTS:

 

There is another title I’ll briefly touch upon, Hebrew Israelite.  Many of these are black people but not all,  I’m white and not racist but some of these groups are racist, thinking everything is bloodline and that they are the ‘true’ Israelites, forgetting that believers are supposed to be ‘grafted in’ to the Israeli vine.  Apart from these issues I align closely with some of their beliefs and so I guess some of them in a way are Netzari Israelites if they consider themselves akin to 1ct century New/Renewed Covenant ways, The Way etc.

 

I’ve probably missed out a lot of what I wanted to say but that’s the main points I think.  Again, please understand these are my own views based on much research, conversations and other things and so if you feel I’ve lumped you into a category that your against in an area, please know I’m not speaking for everyone.  These are just generally what I see.  I also have wrote with a bias because as I’ve said, I consider myself more a Netzari Israelite but I still see the two (3) as compatible a lot of the time – it really depends on each individual I guess.  I'm not saying "I'm right, your wrong" neccasaraly because I don't know everything and maybe the Netzari Yahudi side is right on all points, and I'm wrong.  Obviously I don't think that, but I'm open to correction as I'm just after truth, please be patient with me.

 

Please, if at all possible I’d like to get a collective opinion on this as the above I’ve never seen wrote anywhere so thought I’d do it.  I’m willing to change in whatever I should providing solid evidence with no holes in the theory.  I’ve had to change an awful lot just to get to where I am now so I know how hard it can be.  I’m after truth above my own wants and so my meticulous ways make progress very slow indeed.  Apologies if I’ve just typed everything you already know, it’s my first post!

All ze beyst!

EDIT:  Being in-between the two extremes of Judaism and Christianity I guess I'm sort of a half cast probably not accepted from either side, I'm not against Yahudah just I'm not convinced we are to be grafted 'into' Yahudah, rather Israel that definitely Includes Yahudah.  If I lived with Yahudim I'd probably try to integrate but again, I doubt I'd be accepted because of my middle position and that I'm not convinced of all the Oral ways.  I just wanted to say this so you don't get the impression I'm against people.  I'm rather self conscious of this because articulating my words to convey my message without it coming across wrong is difficult. 

EDIT 2:  I keep wanting to clarify and add things, but this is my first post so I do wish to express myself (as we all do) and make my position known as a foundation for future things. 

I take teaching from all sources, Jewish, Christian, something in between etc.  I believe both sides of extremity have a lot of truth and error all at once, the trick is extracting the truth and not throwing the baby out with the bath water as I move away from Mainstream Christianity which is my background.  Christianity has a lot of truth in it, so does Judaism but neither side I'm convinced has it all figured, rather, both sides need to learn from each other and hold to that which is good.  It's taking me a long time though!  Anyone else having a similar experience?

EDIT 3:

Teffilin is another area where the 2 or 3 groups differ also. 

People who don't use the word Yahudi or Jew tend to see the Teffilin as a Rabbinic extra also.

I see it as an extra myself but I don't see it as against the Word. There are scriptures that describe binding the words around your heart and neck.  Yet we see no Rabbinic necklaces or cases of people dying as they wrap leather straps around their heart physically.  Again I mean no disrespect, I'm just offering my observations of the two (3) primary groups and differencies. I write with a bias (set view point) but then everyone does if they believe something.

This post seems to a somewhat 'l8ving' document as I keep tweaking it so I may rewrite it one day neatly.

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Comment by Larry on August 4, 2014 at 9:08am

ok

Comment by KnuNetzer on August 2, 2014 at 7:27am

Just updated the above post again with EDIT 3 but I kight rewrite the whole thing at some point for neatness and better readability.  If I do I won't delete the above.

Comment by KnuNetzer on July 12, 2014 at 8:57am

Wow!   I didn't expect such a positive response, thank you indeed.  I was worried of offending people and especially those like yourself who classify as Netzari Yahudim because I know that when we say/write things that others disagree with we naturally want to start stone throwing, so to read your comment is very encouraging.

Its got some hard points in it that may or not be as true but then again the line is never

so defined.

I know, that's my point.  But as I've said in the article, I'm not speaking for everyone as there is lots of transference between what I perceive as being 2, maybe 3 branches of the Netzarim whole.

you are a very good writer I'm Very interested in  reading more from you. You truly show that you have been doing your studys !!!! 

Thanks, I didn't expect that either!  I've been digging hard for several years to find truth, my 'testimony' for want of a better word would be half a book in itself so maybe another time if anyone is interested.  I did start writing a book to get my thoughts on paper that covers this and it's currently over 100 pages long but since settling on things somewhat I've neglected it, hitting writers block.  I should get back to it some point.  I'm not really a writer though.

I'll look for the facebook page as I didn't know about it, do you mind if I refine the above article before you post it (unless you already have?) as there are some typo's and poor grammar I wish to fix, some redundant repeat ideas and a couple of bits I'd like to add.

I'll let you decide. 

Again, thanks for the positive feedback. :)

Comment by Larry on July 11, 2014 at 5:27pm

very good article ! I like it . Its got some hard points in it that may or not be as true but then again the line is never so defined. but I think it is very good and I do think that most people need to read it . I will post this to the other site on Facebook in hopes to get more people to give their comments. you are a very good writer I'm Very interested in  reading more from you. You truly show that you have been doing your studys !!!! 

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